[ISM3 Users] Tuesday Insight: Environments

[Vicente Aceituno]

Adrian,

The difference in POVs is that you want all the conceivable modeling
data regardless of the model; while I think that collecting too much
data is time consuming and expensive.

With a good enough model and good enough data you can take informed
decisions; with a perfect model and perfect data you can take informed
decisions as well; but the ROI will be worse, or even negative.

My best

Vicente

On 7/10/07, Adrian Wiesmann <awiesmann at somap.org> wrote:
> Hello
>
> > - The real world normally changes faster than you can change your
> > model of the world. So they tend to stay out of synch.
>
> Agree. Although changes should be noted somewhere. New people starting and
> regulars leaving a company are managed in some database. Installed
> software should be managed in some software or database. Networks should
> be protocolled, systems should be documented. So isn't this only a
> question of getting at the data?
>
>
> > - I will repeat the main message from my original post: A human being
> > can't be understood as a collection of cells. A company can't be
> > understood as a collection of information system components.
>
> I understood this sentence. I am only not sure if I agree.
>
>
> > > - Everything in a company is an asset (cable, room, file cabinet,
> > > people).
> >
> > I don't agree. Take me for an example. If you see Vicente as a set of
> > organs and let's say, you remove the lungs...oops Vicente is no more.
> > But scratch a few cells here and there, and Vicente is still sending
> > mail...
>
> Who decides which cells are vital and which not? And based on what
> information are you deciding? To stay with your medical examples: Cancer
> is known to mutate cells. How can we know we don't have cancer if we
> don't look at every cell?
>
>
> > If you have a Company and remove a switch...hey the Company is still
> > there. A poor guy had to go get a less important switch and replace
> > that particular one. Now, you send the Production Environment to the
> > Mariana's trench...no more Company.
>
> Again, who decides that the switch is not vital and based on what facts?
> Probably there is some weird topology and all the traffic flows through
> that single switch?
>
>
> > Simple modelling (environments) takes less effort, and the value of
> > the environment won't change wildly from one month to the next.
>
> I completely agree. My point lies in the fact that we base our decisions
> on incomplete data. As simpler as things get as more we construe the
> situation of an environment.
>
> > Tools are seconday. Good tools + poor ideas = poor results.
>
> Good interpretation + poor data = poor results.
>
>
> > IT: Logs show we can squeeze 99,99% uptime from standalone servers.
> > That's 7 hours dowtime a month.
> > Management: The business can't afford more than one hour downtime a
> > month. IT: Ok, we will have to go for redundant systems then.
>
> IMHO this is wrong. The management will start to say:
>
> "We want not more than 1hr downtime per month"
>
> and the IT will then look into the logs and say:
>
> "Currently we have 7hrs, so we will need redundant systems"
>
>
> > The big picture is the picture with less, more significant detail, not
> > the picture with all the detail, including the details not wanted or
> > needed to take decisions.
>
> Agree, wrong word. I meant if we don't need the info about the cable for
> the complete picture?
>
>
> > Tools are not the solution, better modelling is.
>
> I guess this sums our two positions quite well. You say we need
> abstraction or reduction to cope with the data. I say we need more
> intelligent systems so that we can cope with the data.
>
>
> > Again, no. A doctor doesn't want to know what goes on with every
> > single cell of yours. What he wants to know is how are you kidneys,
> > lungs, etc.
>
> No :)
>
> Your analogy limps, as we say over here. My approach is not about looking
> at every single cell. It is about getting all the data from my body.
> Without interpretation and in full detail with the intent, that I can
> filter out what I am not wanting to know: Heart rate, blood pressure,
> components of blood, size of lung, rate of breathing, where in my body all
> the blood is circulating, stress level, etc. So if I someday want to see
> what risks I am having, that system could tell me that my veins will
> soon turn into varices, I just need a simple query and will know the
> answer, the data is all there.
>
> Regards,
> Adrian
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> Users at ism3.com
> http://lists.ism3.com/mailman/listinfo/users
>